Utilitybase chatlog - 2006-02-14

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00:00:51   --> jahc (~jahc@cd7f79a.385a42df.xnet.co.nz) has joined #amigadev
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00:11:30 number6 join #amigaosonly
00:14:01 nicomen there's already #amigaos4 so, don't think so
00:14:29 nicomen ;)
00:15:05 jahc number6: whats the point of that channel??
00:15:20 jahc number6: I've never seen anti amigaos sentiment in #amigaworld
00:15:21 jahc or #amigadev
00:15:28 nicomen MikeyC started it AFAIK, being fed up of morphos/aros etc. talk
00:15:53 jahc knee jerk reaction I think.. what was it, a 3 hour long conversation 5 weeeks ago?
00:15:56 nicomen jahc: there is non-amigaos talks here, including aros and morphos, but that's the point really, so no biggie
00:16:18 number6 just a typing mistake on my part. Couldn't use my scripts.
00:16:27 jahc number6: oops, sorry
00:16:32 jahc I'm going to go test demos
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01:09:46 wegster number6: shees, recruiting now are ya? *roll*
01:10:12 kindergip what are we doing?
01:11:05 nicomen hehe
01:11:08 nicomen nothing
01:11:13 nicomen just the usual rant
01:11:30 jahc wegster :)
01:11:33   -!- * kindergip looks suspiciously left and right and then hard at wegster
01:12:17 jahc kinderdick
01:12:32 kindergip jass
01:12:57 wegster kindergip: "number6 join #amigaosonly" ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H YAFCTWI. Don't ask for that abbreviation unless ya really wants it ;-)
01:14:13 jahc have the doctors got you on the good stuff yet?
01:14:16   -!- * number6 is on the edge of being kicked for making a typing error. Hmm...seems justified.
01:15:18 jahc number6: we're not gonna kick you!
01:15:26 wegster jahc got a shot of cortizone, more meds, likely two problems, one is I have some calcium deposits on/in rotator cuff inflaming _everything_
01:15:30 jahc typos are a finger amputating offense
01:16:10 jahc now stick your finger in the little box..
01:16:31 jahc you may feel a stinging sensation.
01:16:33 nicomen number6: noone said anything about kicking dude, relax ;)
01:16:36 jahc I love this thing. I bought it from the mafia.
01:17:38 nicomen kebab?
01:19:16 jahc speaking of food..
01:19:32 jahc I had one sandwhich, two oranges, and a handful of cookies in the last 28 hours
01:25:14 nicomen wegster likes long speeches and wrote an average of 15.67 words per line.
01:25:21 nicomen Zerohero knows that wisdom is the real wealth and asked 7 questions.
01:28:47 jahc haha
01:30:18 wegster nicomen: you're kidding? ;-)
01:30:37 wegster nicomen: is the stats system back uo?
01:32:18 nicomen not sure what stats you are referring to
01:32:37 nicomen http://denise.polarboing.com/~pboing/stats/AWnet/amigadev/ <-- has always been there
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01:34:31 wegster nicomen: ahh the one for #aw as well
01:34:48 nicomen it's in there
01:35:03 nicomen ooh chemical brothers concert on bbc world service, got to love that channel
01:35:48 wegster ahh, the 'other' stats page more interesting with random quotes tho ;-)
01:36:02 nicomen yeah, this is a "boring" one
01:38:10 jahc how come all the major developers are silent?
01:38:37 nicomen ?
01:38:37 jahc troika, ack, sg2, hyperion, criscot....... covers the spectrum
01:38:45 nicomen oh
01:38:53 nicomen they all bought ataris
01:38:57 jahc haha
01:39:21 jahc nicomen: what did you think of "Jenny Thinks"?
01:39:24 jahc I loved the music in it
01:39:31 nicomen which one was that again?
01:39:45 jahc jenny thinks that she has the key to popularity... parking in cars with boys at night
01:39:53 nicomen http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=13047
01:39:59 jahc nothing like being miss popularity
01:39:59 nicomen boring and ugly
01:40:28 nicomen a cool intro you should see that is mostly nostalgic is:
01:40:29 jahc its weird, but I like it
01:41:29 nicomen obsoleet
01:41:34 nicomen http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=13033
01:42:18 nicomen Obsoleet by Unreal Voodoo has a very special atmosphere which I guess makes most of us just love it. This is a nostalgic trip that goes back to our C64/128-Amiga childhood.
01:42:21 nicomen It's not very impressive technically and it's not about abstract art, so if that's your cup of tea you might not like it. Some people might call it "a boring 3d-fly-by", but I think the demo as a whole has a very high quality.
01:42:25 nicomen Graphics looks a bit simple but is still nice, although I would have liked to see the girl model looking a bit less stiff.
01:42:28 nicomen The soundtrack by Cairbre is a masterpiece alone and can be downloaded separatly from Unreal Voodoo's website. It really fits like a glove and I love the way it evolves with the demo.
01:42:46 nicomen http://www.scene.org/file.php?file=%2Fparties%2F2004%2Fassembly04%2Fdemo%2Fvideo_conversions%2Fobsoleet_by_unreal_voodoo.avi&fileinfo
01:42:49 nicomen for the video
01:43:34 jahc 3d nearly always looks stiff though
01:51:06 nicomen seen it?
01:54:02 ssolie anybody have any probs with the new GNU make?
01:55:39 ssolie nicomen: can I get download stats per file from Aminet?
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02:08:48 nicomen ssolie: not systematically, I might grep logs if you really want though
02:12:10 ssolie nicomen: I want to know how many downloads of make-ppc.lha there were
02:13:04 nicomen latest version or at all?
02:16:19 ssolie oh, latest version only
02:25:09 nicomen heh, not much
02:25:16 nicomen 18 downloads on main mirror
02:25:35 nicomen probably 2x including de4.aminet.net
02:27:49 ssolie 82 (os4depot) + 18 = 100 downloads :)
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02:40:26 nicomen if you try to download anything on aminet, you'll see that if you haven't chosen a mirror you'll get the file from a random mirror
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02:40:54 nicomen hence the main site's stats is lower than the real amounts of downloads
02:41:13 nicomen ssolie: probably means there are about 80'ish developers using make on os4?
02:47:10 ssolie looking at the os4depot d/l stats for the dev tools, I'd say so
02:49:46 nicomen well I guess os4 software is downloaded by all the crazy os4 users no matter what it is ;D
02:50:14 number6 nicomen: There -are- users who do that.
02:50:40 nicomen yeah, I won't mention names though ;)
02:53:55   -!- * number6 thinks it is probably some of the same people, who, after update#4 started downloading OS2.x programs to see if they finally worked.
02:54:29 ssolie hehe.. well somebody has to test them because I sure don't (old programs that is)
02:55:17 jahc http://flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbthread.pl/amiga/expand/127267
02:55:21 jahc giving praise to os4..
02:55:35 jahc and theres no amiga bashing threads on moobunny either at the moment
02:55:36 jahc weird
02:56:06 nicomen /on msg matches *moobarney* kickban $user 7 weeks
02:56:21 ssolie jahc: likely only temporary knowing that clan.. :-/
02:57:36 arc nah, looks like the plug is about to be pulled on moo
02:57:58 arc and morphzone is dead now
02:57:59 nicomen the xgl demo is cool though ;)
03:00:08 nicomen shouldn't be too impossible to do similar stuff with AmigaOS
03:01:05 number6 arc: What do you think though about the "user estimates" shown at the bunny. (classic, MOS, AOS, etc.)
03:01:23 arc way off
03:02:00 arc and on the low side
03:02:55 number6 arc: What about Martin Blom's download figures for AHI, though, which is used by the 3 main systems?
03:03:33 arc just shows "active" users right now
03:03:48 arc many are just waiting
03:03:53 ssolie not everyone lives on web forums et al either
03:03:58 arc yes
03:04:07 nicomen who downloads ahi anyway?
03:04:16 number6 ssolie: I was more curious about the percentages, as opposed to the totals.
03:04:33 ssolie number6: relatively speaking...
03:06:34 nicomen does ahi come with morphos?
03:06:46 arc you will still have to add in the A1's that had hardware problems
03:07:00 wegster I dl ahi
03:07:42 arc thats prob. 100 or more if everything you read is right
03:07:58 number6 My point would be that since Martin hosted the files for a period of time before they arrived on OS4depot, not that many people kept them "up to date".
03:08:27 arc yes, another factor
03:09:17 number6 If that was true concerning "other" updates of software, then you could only count on a few hundred people to have the latest versions of important system software...therefore not many reliable testers.
03:09:34 arc like theres a % that hasn't upgraded os4, maybe put away their a1's or gave up
03:09:45 arc same with mos
03:09:54 arc prob more with mos
03:10:49 ssolie curious why some are obsessed with numbers as well.. searching for justification perhaps?
03:10:50 jahc ken put away his peg for a few months
03:11:24 jahc ssolie: someone made a good point on that thread.. wether the os4/mos users is 900 to 1100, or 1100 to 900... does it really matter?
03:11:58 ssolie jahc: indeed.. I prefer to look at trends and the trend isn't good
03:12:17 jahc what trend have you noticed?
03:12:38 ssolie jahc: holding steady imho
03:12:45 jahc well, better than going backwards
03:12:53 ssolie jahc: no significant growth or shrinking
03:12:57 arc wait and see ssolie?
03:13:17 jahc I cant wait for the day when the amiga platform is attractive enough to start enticing new non-amiga customers
03:13:30 jahc probably wont happen.. but I'm hoping.
03:13:57 ssolie nobody knows but I'm sure you'll find plenty of armchair experts to tell you what will happen :-)
03:14:13 jahc I'd love to be able to say "hey, this machine is fast and responsive, will do www email msn and ms word.. its perfect for you"
03:14:36 arc did you read wher someone on moo said they can see 100,000 amigas again?
03:14:36 number6 ssolie: I agree. But you have classic who currently can not purchase AOS and us who can't purchase hardware to run it on. Considering those facts...holding steady is a remarkably GOOD sign.
03:14:45 jahc arc: heh. yeah, right. :)
03:15:26 jahc WOW.... 60kbytes per sec downloads 60mb fast.
03:15:42 jahc I expected it to be 10% done after browsing for a short while with that going in the background
03:15:54 jahc I'm not used to getting full speed out of my ADSL on OS4
03:16:07 ssolie jahc: you're welcome :)
03:20:15 jahc ?
03:20:24 jahc did you develop net stuff for os4?
03:21:19 ssolie nope, but the team spent a heck of a long time on it
03:21:53 ssolie it has been a long bumpy roadshow (har har)
03:22:16 number6 ssolie: now now...give eth3com.device some credit here.
03:22:33 ssolie the ethernet chip turned out to be a devil as well
03:23:25 number6 ssolie: and docs too from those wonderful "sharing" companies.
03:23:47 ssolie I know I'll never take networking for granted again
03:33:12 nicomen anyone did anything with amissl3 already?
03:33:29 ssolie not here
03:33:41 ssolie could use it for distcc I suppose
03:34:17 jahc what was wrong with eth3com.device?
03:34:21 jahc articias bugs?
03:34:43 nicomen not as much bugs as lack documentation really
03:35:39 ssolie lol, yeah, articia is the root of all evil ;-)
03:36:37 ssolie no, the ethernet chip is a bitch to program, nothing else
03:36:58 ssolie each chip has a personality, some are a bit more nasty than others
03:39:48 ssolie troika was smart to use a different chip
03:40:34 nicomen well, Genesi did that some years earlier on
03:40:46 nicomen and it's not like there is any MAI to buy articias from anymore is it+
03:40:47 nicomen ?
03:41:01 ssolie nicomen: they made more than one chip :)
03:41:54 nicomen who did?
03:42:07 nicomen mai, sure, but doesn't help much when out of business
03:42:15 ssolie I've dealth with many "end of life" parts in board manufacturing, there is almost always a bunch sitting in a warehouse
03:42:22 ssolie dealt with sorry
03:42:40 nicomen ok, mi is probably still alive but still
03:42:57 nicomen http://www.mai.com/careers/c_openings.html ;D
03:43:13 ssolie given the reputation now, it wouldn't be worth putting too much effort in making a lot of boards with articia of course
03:44:25 nicomen With an order volume of 10,000 units, the unit price of Articia S chipset is US$25.
03:44:32 jahc nicomen: MAI actually contacted me..
03:44:38 jahc to make an IRC client for their reference design
03:44:46 jahc .... yeah right jahc.
03:45:14 jahc I should at least put some thought into my lies.
03:46:33 nicomen haha
03:47:02 nicomen wish it would say: "it works correctly and it's properly documented now" in the product sheets
03:47:18 nicomen Engineering samples for Articia Sa are expected to be available in Q3, 2004.
03:47:31 nicomen says copyright 2003, so maybe it's a timezone thing
03:48:10 ssolie it is somehow fun to poke at the loser isn't it
03:48:49 nicomen well, I was merely astounded by the fact their webpage was up again
03:49:55 jahc I wish I could code 3d stuff
03:49:57 jahc warp3d stuff
03:50:15 jahc lol nicomen
03:50:34 nicomen http://www.mai.com/news_events/images/linux_3.jpg looks like an A1
03:50:37 ssolie jahc: I'm waiting for some OpenGL API myself
03:50:47 nicomen jahc: no I'm not teaching you that ;)
03:51:04 ssolie jahc: warp3d is deprecated but feel free to play with it if you wish
03:52:03 nicomen hm, they seem to be accepting orders on boards
03:52:13 nicomen maybe one could buy and sell as a1 compatibles? ;D
03:52:24 nicomen create a piracy market for os4 et al
03:52:31 number6 nicomen: "accepting orders on boards"...so is eyetech.
03:53:10 jahc I'm sure amigaos4 hardware companies (eyetech and future ones) have been gagged somehow by legal issues.
03:53:45 ssolie jahc: you are incorrect
03:54:10 jahc ssolie: you know that? well thats reassuring. i had a bad feeling about it all.
03:54:11 nicomen number6: huh?
03:54:36 number6 nicomen: The point is that "seems like" means absolutely nothing.
03:54:36 jahc ssolie: but you're in the know so I feel a bit better now.
03:54:48 nicomen last I heard was "you guys suck, everybody hates me, I'm outta here"
03:55:25 ssolie jahc: I was surprised Adam said anything to be honest.. guess he was just excited that day
03:55:45 ssolie jahc: we all know shipping product is all that matters, say anything and it will be used against you forever (see above)
03:55:53 jahc ssolie: nod, ok.
03:56:18 ssolie jahc: still would be nice to have an update though.. I know
03:56:19 nicomen hehe
03:56:59 number6 ssolie: Blame the internet and the demand for instant communication.
03:57:08 jahc I go crazy when no one talks for months.
03:57:09 ssolie number6: I blame Canada
03:57:17 jahc Update4 has appeased the os4 crowd for now.. hehehe
03:57:20 jahc ssolie lol
03:58:02 ssolie jahc: you think you go crazy? imagine being deeper into it and still gettiing nothing.. *that* drives you crazy I'll tell ya
03:58:23 nicomen it's amazng how everybody in the amiga community seem to think that it's better to shut up and don't say anything till it's out and face meters and meters of complaints rather thatn to just say, "sorry guys, we are late, we don't know for sure how long it will take, we'll tell what the status is in a month's time (it could be the same though), thanks for your patience"
03:59:18 jahc nicomen: I think we've been spoiled with communication from amiga inc (when they were still the good guys) and hyperion (though not so much lately)
03:59:23 ssolie nicomen: I think is became vogue after the pundits started affecting business dealings with their endless chatter
03:59:32 nicomen or even "yeah, sorry guys, we screwed up several times, but we will continue trying, so if you are the forgiving type, stay tuned. Thanks, goodbye"
03:59:51 nicomen it's not that hard
04:00:26 jahc I want to future proof my a1 with a cpu upgrade and a 512mb stick. MAINLY so its beefy enough for a modern browser.
04:00:27 nicomen just because you have had lousy quality on communications earlier, doesn't mean you need to stop it completely
04:00:50 nicomen a proper modern browser should run just fine on classic amiga ppcs
04:01:14 jahc nicomen: firefox felt a little slowish.. not badly.. just a little.. on linux on my a1
04:01:25 jahc I want smooth as silk operation
04:01:29 nicomen exactly ;)
04:01:37 nicomen tried konqueror btw?
04:01:40 jahc if this is gonna be my main machine for years..
04:01:43 jahc konquerer yeah
04:01:47 nicomen slower?
04:01:52 jahc actually IBrowse with JIT feels about the same
04:01:59 jahc just renders pages alot worse lol
04:02:03 nicomen hehe
04:03:51 jahc my ex-amiga friend who doesnt care for amigas anymore was mega impressed with sideways screen dragging
04:03:56 jahc 2 days ago
04:04:05 jahc "choice!" or words to that effect
04:04:36 jahc he liked my x-arcade stick + 59fps MAME speed too.. "wow so its like a real arcade"
04:05:01 nicomen M)
04:05:03 nicomen ;)
04:05:12 nicomen it's getting there
04:05:14 ssolie I admit screen dragging is kinda neat.. I really thought it would be useless but here I am using it.. lol
04:05:41 nicomen it's even better than what was possible before
04:05:51 jahc ssolie same
04:06:01 jahc sideways movement has given it an extra dimension
04:06:14 ssolie after using a P96 for years before I was used to flipping screens again.. now I can't stop using this darn dragging
04:06:14 nicomen you could do horisontal dragging on very wide screens, but only to a certain extend, and with ugly black borders
04:07:33 number6 ssolie: But you have to hold "shift" key on public screens.
04:10:45 ssolie number6: I have no problem pressing shift (you don't have to hold it down while dragging btw)
04:12:23 number6 ssolie: Have you made public screens and put apps like wookie on them? Have you seen how screen dragging works in those cases?
04:13:00 jahc number6: how does it work?
04:13:36 ssolie number6: I have 3 or 4 public screens.. what is the problem?
04:14:40 number6 I do not have to hold mouse button on workbench. But on the other public screens I do.
04:15:22 ssolie you mean shift button?
04:15:58 number6 ssolie: sorry. Yes. "shift".
04:17:44 ssolie number6: I have no such problem here
04:17:52 number6 Press "shift and hold down mouse on public screen" Let go of mouse button and screen stays where you place it. Press "shift and hold down mouse, drag, and release "shift" and screen bounces back to top.
04:19:04 ssolie number6: yes, holding down the shift key makes it snap.. so?
04:19:27 ssolie number6: works with any public screen including workbench here
04:19:43 ssolie Workbench is a public screen after all
04:20:01 number6 ssolie: when you say "snap", do you mean "snap" back to the top?
04:20:30 ssolie snap to the left
04:20:39 ssolie or centre
04:23:33 jahc ssolie: oh thats nice behavior.. I didnt notice that before
04:24:19 number6 ssolie: GUI/controls set here to "unchecked" off screen dragging. Maybe a difference in behavior?
04:25:13 jahc number6: hold down shift.. drag the screen... do not let go of shift.. click on the titlebar again, it will snap horizontally back in place
04:25:15 ssolie number6: probably.. I don't pretend to know all the gui-junk either :)
04:25:59 number6 ssolie: Lots of possible combinations of settings. Agreed. Not a problem....FUN!
04:25:59 nicomen http://g-prime.net/x360/fubar/IMG_4687.JPG
04:26:12 nicomen err
04:26:16 nicomen wrong channel
04:26:21 number6 lol
04:26:31 nicomen well it's super secret so don't look at it
04:26:53 number6 yeah like my password I sent to a user in the wrong channel....
04:27:29   -!- * number6 thinks that nicomen has mastered advertising by saying "don't look at this".
04:27:41 jahc hehe
04:27:42 nicomen ;)
04:30:46 nicomen Safest OS ever http://secunia.com/product/4610/
04:35:27 number6 nicomen: this time your post is for -us-?
04:35:48 nicomen yeah
04:36:09 number6 ok. Just trying to comply with your privacy policy is all.
04:37:14 nicomen hehe
04:37:42 number6 Speaking of "hehe". "Alerting you whenever a vulnerability affects any software on your network."
04:37:52 number6 lmao
04:38:16 nicomen wonder if I should actually add some of the boo-boos of AmigaOS
04:38:22 nicomen like "." in path
04:39:41 number6 I love this line: "Below you will find a complete list" with nothing below the line...
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09:16:44 MrBot [hnl_dk] hnl_dk
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15:58:33 nicomen good morning
16:17:46 nicomen guess not then
16:17:49 nicomen bad morning?
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16:44:44 MrBot [hnl_dk] hnl_dk
16:45:04 nicomen hi there
16:45:12 hnl_dk Hi' :-)
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17:55:28 kas1e hi
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18:14:20 afxgroup hi
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18:21:59 zerohero argh!!!!
18:22:10 zerohero i was just going to ask afxgroup something
18:25:55 hnl_dk ;-)
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18:56:21 antique zero: i found out how to get around the idcmp_mousebuttons :)
18:56:43 zerohero antique: how?
18:57:06 antique UWORD msg_code;
18:57:17 antique msg_code = message->Code;
18:57:25 antique if ((gad) && (msg_code==232))
18:57:55 antique when you press the button you get a msg_code= 104,and 232 when you release the button. :)
18:58:30 zerohero hmm
18:58:40 zerohero well, that works for one button i guess
18:58:55 antique mean by that?
18:59:05 zerohero but you should really use some ga_id tags on the buttons (i think those are used in gadtools as well)
18:59:21 zerohero then you can filter out which button that was pressed
18:59:34 zerohero but i don't do gadtools, it's really too old
18:59:51 zerohero mui or reaction, or feelin even, would be a way better choice, imo
19:00:30 antique but i'm not using gadgets here,else i could just use: IDCMP_GADGETUP
19:00:51 zerohero ok
19:01:06 antique using it cos that's what i used back on blitz.
19:02:05 antique i'm just glad i got it working. hehe :)
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19:03:55 zerohero #6
19:04:16 antique zerohero: is it hard to port 68k -> os4 ?
19:04:47 zerohero antique: i don't think so, but it depends on what to port
19:05:09 zerohero i'm not very used to libraries at all, so i find them a bit more tricky
19:05:18 number6 z
19:05:43 zerohero also there are a few things that have changed, ie how to allocate some stuff
19:06:09 antique ok! but mostly the same?
19:06:17 zerohero but in general i'd say it isn't hard, not if you know your way around amiga programming and have autodocs at hand
19:06:23 zerohero yes, mostly the same
19:06:45 antique good. :)
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19:11:49 antique hmmm
19:12:13 antique i'm thinking of gadtools,reading,writing files,loading icons/gfx etc...
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19:30:23 SixK lo
19:30:55 antique ol
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19:57:22 afxgroup hi
19:58:50 antique hello
19:59:09 antique not watching the olympics?
20:00:06 afxgroup nope.. :P
20:00:13 afxgroup i don't like snow.. i like sea!
20:01:11 antique hehe. i like green grass. :)
20:09:20 SixK lo afxgroup
20:14:21 antique error 0 in line 107 = #include "loads/save.c" ??????
20:14:58 SixK .h ?
20:15:27 AC dont include C files in C files
20:17:33 antique void write_cfg()
20:17:33 antique {
20:17:33 antique BPTR fd2;
20:17:33 antique char buffer2[1000];
20:17:33 antique if (fd2 = Open("ram:blah",MODE_NEWFILE))
20:17:34 antique {
20:17:37 antique Write(fd,buffer2,strlen(buffer2));
20:17:39 antique sprintf(buffer2,"HOTKEY2=%s\n",hotkey2);
20:17:41 antique Write(fd,buffer2,strlen(buffer2));
20:17:43 antique sprintf(buffer2,"WINDOW=%i,%i\n",posx,posy);
20:17:45 antique Write(fd,buffer2,strlen(buffer2));
20:17:47 antique sprintf(buffer2,"WINMODE=%i\n",winmode);
20:17:49 antique Write(fd,buffer2,strlen(buffer2));
20:17:51 antique